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Pat de Brún: Big tech is harming our human rights and safety

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Episode Summary

I had the pleasure of welcoming Pat De Brún, Amnesty International’s Head of Big Tech Accountability and Deputy Director of Amnesty’s Technology and Human Rights Programme.

We discussed the complex relationship between today’s AI-driven algorithms, human rights, and the role of big tech companies in influencing geopolitics.

Pat shared insights into Amnesty’s commitment to impartiality and independence, emphasising their reliance on international human rights law to guide their research and advocacy.

We discussed the organisation’s decade-long focus on technology’s impact on human rights, highlighting their work on spyware and big tech accountability. Pat elaborated on the challenges posed by the business models of major tech companies, such as Meta and Google, which prioritise engagement and data collection over privacy and human rights.

This model, often termed “surveillance capitalism,” has led to significant societal issues, including misinformation, incitement to violence, and mental health problems.

We explored the need for regulatory changes to address these systemic issues, emphasising that the problem lies not with the technology itself but with the exploitative practices behind it.

The conversation also touched on the role of social media in recent far-right riots in the UK, where misinformation spread rapidly, fueled by platforms like X. Pat explained how design choices and policy changes under Elon Musk’s leadership contributed to the amplification of harmful content. But this issue is not exclusive to X.

Join the conversation now to understand how widespread this problem has become and its implications on your life, work and business decisions.

Thumbnail image of persons generated with Grok AI.

Key Takeaways

(YouTube Timestamps)
  • 00:00:00 – Preview
  • 00:03:50 – Amnesty International’s strict independence and history
  • 00:07:48 – Amnesty’s Tech key investigation priorities for the past decade
  • 00:11:38 – Modern tech’s aggressive data grab impact on human rights
  • 00:18:37 – How governments of all parties failed to protect us from big tech
  • 00:24:01 – How can the general public pressure governments to force change
  • 00:28:05 – Tech is not the problem. It’s the shareholders!
  • 00:32:14 – Why are political leaders of all parties still blindsided by technology?
  • 00:41:17 – The role Elon Musk’s X (Twitter) played in inciting the 2024 UK riots
  • 00:47:44 – Do negative behaviours on social media constitute free speech?
  • 00:54:59 – Can users get prosecuted for spreading dangerous content on social media?
  • 00:57:27 – Is this an exclusively X/Twitter problem, or is this a wider social media problem?
  • 01:02:48 – Mainstream media’s failure in fully scrutinising tech’s accountability
  • 01:12:47 – Pat’s remarkable journey that led him to his current leadership at Amnesty

Our Favourite Quote from This Episode

We need to free tech from big tech!

References and Citations

About our Guest

Pat de Brún

CEO Retort guest profile: Pat de Brún

Pat is a human rights lawyer and researcher who is currently the Head of Big Tech Accountability for Amnesty International and Deputy Director of Amnesty’s Technology and Human Rights Programme.

He led their recent research that revealed how Elon Musk’s X created a ‘staggering amplification of hate’ during the 2024 riots in England.

Pat has led several high-profile investigations, including Facebook’s role in the persecution of the Rohingya people in Myanmar and Big Tech’s role in silencing human rights activists in Vietnam.

He has also led several research projects on LGBTIQ rights in Cambodia, including research on trans people’s lived experiences of discrimination in urban centres, and a study on marriage equality and gender recognition rights.

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