Episode Summary
I sat down with the Leslie Fox Prize-winning mathematician, my mentor and friend, Professor Jeremy Levesley, questioning whether mathematical prowess equates to true intelligence and exploring how AI might bridge or widen societal divides.
We discuss how AI reflects our own intelligence and flaws, as well as the need for a more realistic approach to its implementation. However, we first need to start differentiating between mathematics and intelligence. Jeremy challenges the common notion that AI is smarter than humans, highlighting that AI is a tool created by humans and, as such, is only as smart as the humans who program it.
Jeremy argues the importance of an open-minded approach to learning, asserting that the ability to adapt to new situations is the true measure of intelligence.
He criticises the current education system, stating that it does not foster adaptability or encourage the development of ‘finders’, people who can understand how technology can be adapted to solve problems. Instead, it produces ‘grinders’, people who are good at following instructions but incapable of innovating or adapting.
We also discuss the future of AI and the need for a more responsible approach to its implementation. Jeremy cautions against allowing AI to be controlled by a small group of people or corporations. He advocates for a more democratic approach, with AI utilised to improve the lives of people in general, rather than solely benefiting the shareholders of tech companies.
Join this conversation to find out the true power of applied mathematics and how deeply it is integrated into everything that we do and think.
* This conversation was recorded in 2024, before I decided to launch the podcast. Yet the talking points are so relevant to today’s hype-driven AI world that I felt the episode needed to be revived and included in the CEOR debates. It also demonstrates the reality that AI has not really changed much. It’s my counterparts behind the technology who keep on moving the goalposts.
Key Takeaways
- 00:00:00 – Preview
- 00:03:37 – Despite being the son of a successful inventor and entrepreneur, Jeremy chose maths
- 00:07:43 – Jeremy’s fascinating journey into maths and his education critique
- 00:16:52 – The power, beauty and universality of maths and the meaning of intelligence
- 00:27:21 – Artificial Intelligence (AI) and our limited understanding of human intelligence
- 00:34:55 – How humans construct their own intelligence through their own constructed realities
- 00:52:10 – Critique of the education system’s draconian definition of students’ intelligence
- 01:00:45 – The value of failure in learning at school, work and life
- 01:30:33 – AI’s real potential to bridge knowledge gaps and break cognitive bias
- 01:38:45 – Modern capitalism’s negative impact on innovation
- 01:47:52 – The urgent need for responsible capitalism and the role of regulations
- 01:57:47 – The role of government in facilitating innovation
- 02:04:02 – How to solve the technology sector’s people problem!
Our Favourite Quote from This Episode
References and Citations
-
Ben Byford: Ethical AI is the only way to save humanity
-
As AI advances, the meaning of artificial general intelligence remains murky – New Scientist
-
Morally corrupt innovations are the easiest innovations to create – It’s the lazy approach with dangerous consequences – CEOR
-
Why 95% Of AI Pilots Fail, And What Business Leaders Should Do Instead – Forbes
-
University of Helsinki’s FREE AI Course
-
Frustrated with today’s ‘attention economy’? You’re really going to hate what comes next – Fast Company
-
Forget the attention economy. Prepare for the intention economy – Fast Company
-
The Elite College Students Who Can’t Read Books – The Atlantic
-
AI models have a big people problem – CEOR YouTube
-
AI hallucinations are getting worse – and they’re here to stay – New Scientist
-
Trust, attitudes and use of artificial intelligence: A global study 2025 – KPMG
-
Oklahoma high schools to teach 2020 election conspiracy theories as fact – The Guardian
-
AI-generated ‘slop’ is slowly killing the internet, so why is nobody trying to stop it? – The Guardian
-
Google is killing web search with its AI summary, while also causing brainrot – CEOR
-
The End of AI Utopia Thanks to Dumb Politics
-
Generative AI is Damaging Children’s Mental Health and Safety in the Age of “Brain Rot”
-
Why 2025 Is The Era of Internet of Sh*t (IoS)
-
“Brain rot” is the 2024 Word of the Year — why is this bad news?